the Trader with spy mindset

It is sad that people look down upon technicals. Technicals are the footprints of the operators and masses. it is like a Morse code of secret communication. Technical traders have to have the mindset of a spy. 

The best way to master any indicator is to learn in reverse. Mark 100 high and low points of any chart and see what that indicator did at ALL  of those points. the secret will be revealed to you. like Bruce Lee advised, practice one (or select) technical(s) a thousand times....self talk

the mercy of operator

markets give you next pain only when you have forgotten the previous one. so never forget your pain...self talk.

if market is applying savlon to your wounds, be alert.

--

you may not know what the market is going to do, but you can definitely react to what the market has overdone. and overdo it definitely does as part of the game to trap/confuse/bluff.

which strikeprice option to buy?

- very far out of the money, like 5-10 value = for thrill, not trading

- far out of money like 30-35 value = for aggressive betting on profit from earlier trades

- out of the money like 70-100 value = normal trade position

- in the money like 100-150 = when you are confident 

- deep in the money like 250-400 = alternate to buying futures

- deeper in the money = not much extra benefit though risk increases

Once the value of the option enters the next, higher level, you may skim the option to lower/earlier category and take some profit/money off the table.

Caution : Never put 5% (at worst 10%) of your trading capital in single trade.

except aggressive betting of profits of one trade. eg you turn 10 to 12 lac....and want to bet aggressively with that 2 lac profit, provided you have an evolved dependable tested plan. several traders have made big sums with that approach.

simple way to book profit without closing trade

 one way to book profit without coming out of the position (eg when trend is likely to continue but you want to take some profit off the table to feel comfortable and secure)

replace the costlier option with cheaper one.... 

eg assume you bought a BN call of 500 points...it becomes 800 or 900 or 1000.... it would be wise to book it and replace it with current BN call around 500 points. 

no doubt, current 500 point call may rise slower than 1000 point call but profits will still keep trickling in if trend continues. the slight reduction in profit may be considered as the cost of insurance for peace and profit booking. 

this tactic is like climbing a mountain cliff with progressively hooking oneself to higher harness.

this tactic has 2 more advantages

1. you now have money (out of thin air) to buy more positions if market steps back before resuming the trend.

2. if at all market reverses, you have your initial deployment safe.

of course, this tactic is valid for options only. which i anyways consider best for amateur traders because it is affordable for them and has inbuilt stop loss unlike futures. 

also, to add that standard advise, trade with 3 times smaller trade size than you can easily afford. if you trade with small quantity (3 times less than what you can easily afford), you can become fearless trader who doesn't chicken out amid volatility, and who can trade the method till the end of trade's logic.

if your method is right even small trade size will make you rich, sooner than you think. and if your method is wrong, even larger bet size won't help. that will make you poor, that too, sooner than you think....

i know most old traders knew this, even better than this....just thought i should share for new traders. besides, when i write it  down, it helps in revision.

heavenly chat with a guru

Js: Traders fed up with the rise a few days ago are fed up with fall now...

Trading is a game of cycles and trends.

Without cycles and trends, big players can't make money

Krish: This means human nature is always predictable?

Js: i would say that in a slightly different way...human schemes and the response to those schemes by other humans are always predictable. in fact, as legendary strategy gurus al ries and jack trout say, humans can't tolerate confusion. whether the operator or traders, the ruler or the ruled....all are predictable while trying to avoid confusion.

it's just that many times, clever men complicate, disguise, or camouflage things in such a way that the masses start thinking as if the confusion is really incomprehensible.

Krish: So that means, market reaching equilibrium too is non-acceptable.

Js: if an expert is at the driving seat of the operators or the establishment, it is almost surety that the confusion is just an encoding or encryption of some degree. because the moment confusion goes out of hand, empires and schemes crumble like a pack of cards....

equilibrium is the truth dead clocks kiss twice every day but hate it.

it is all a game and hence can be played. you only have to refuse to believe that you can't understand it. because you can.

it is all fixed and rigged.....beautifully and mathematically

Krish: As they say, there are patterns in the chaos too.

Js: yes....chaos too is a pattern...whenever you are sure that a pattern is emerging, you can be sure that it will change.....anyways, humans can't survive the chaos, including the operators. and as long as humans are controlling the algos of their trading machines we can rest assured that chaos can't be true.

Js: but the day, computers take over from their masters, assuring them profits in return at all cost, wild moves will be common and markets will die because a billion sheep will lose the attraction to the slaughterhouse.

Js: a trader may not earn even a rupee in the market all his life, but he can never lose love of life if only he ensures that he doesn't lose more than he can afford to....

Krish: That's so true, what maximum then they can do is, create an illusion of chaos to that perfection that it becomes so hard to crack by the same organization that created it..only the elite has the key to keep changing this pattern?

Js: such is the life giving quality of the markets.....

the illusion of chaos...yes....

that's the challenge, that's the hint....to crack the code

Krish: Mass is been fed with this narrative simultaneously to create another confusion.

Js: o yes...bullseye

Js: all tv's, books, videos, etc are all crimes by the innocent, on the innocent

Krish: An illusion becomes belief if taken on an everyday basis, so no wonder it becomes addictive too

Js: but you can't fight them, convince them, upset their cart, damage their dhandha or change their mindset.....and why do it.....as i often say....never argue the system, short it

absolutely

and we start loving the illusion. so much so that we are ready to die defending it

markets are mini-universe

markets only magnify what we truly are.....to horrible multiples

Krish: True, deep down this illusion has its base on the "fear" factor of masses. That's the only emotion that can be kindled with a few extra million out of their profit kitty.

Js: yes

greed too is the vengeance of the fear

a fearless man can be rarely greedy

a greedy man will often be fearful

mind frozen in strategy

whatever it does, market tires you. that is it's objective. and that exactly should be a trader's objective....to duck that.

it is a mind game to snatch each other's money.....even make others surrender theirs.....dirty mind game....that's all it is...

so, never trade with mind

trade with system

a trading system is a mind frozen in a strategy.

-

those who say timing is not important mean to say that they are finding it difficult to time. timing is important. and wherever, timing is difficult, approximate timing is the next important thing.

you can't buy anything anytime without consequences.

are the markets fixed?

yes, the markets are fixed.

(i would, rather, prefer to call it - "controlled". i would certainly not called them "rigged".)

if they were not (fixed), they wouldn't be there at first place. at least, not the size they are at any given time.

they are, because of this reason, a large generator of gaming and service (pseudo-) employment.

so, large that you would hold your head in disbelief if you were to know the real numbers.

almost fake markets are the biggest supporters and insurance to the economy of the world. without them, a major part of the economy would collapse.

markets suck most of the poison and pain for you for most of the time.

markets are the solution to the problem of making life less miserable for most of the world, mostly indirectly.

markets are engine of the world. and here, i am not talking about the stock markets but the money market which has the stock market as its piston and cylinder.

markets are the necessary evil. in fact, critical evil. without this evil, the real ugly face of the "good" (anti-evil) will be exposed. good exists because of the evil. evil has been hated far too much and far too long for the politics and narrative of the good to live and survive. they have out the human greed to the best possible use in the service of the humanity which otherwise can't sustain itself with the limited ideas of gainful employment it has beyond the basic food, shelter, medicine and clothing ideas.

markets are the biggest reason, cause and motivator for most of the things on the planet, if not all.

my these views have got bolstered after i listened to Andre Minassian. don't listen to him. he will change the way you think about the markets, the world in general and money in particular. and certainly don't watch the Atlantic Reports channel.

people probably hate markets for being fixed. if they knew enough, they would be grateful!

and, by the way, just because they are fixed, you can make money in them. if they were not, they would make you and all bankrupt for sure, because of the sheer lawlessness and randomness with which the markets would behave in the hands of the logical mad masses who know nothing behind the scenes and react to everything.

for once, i want to say "thank you" to all so-called manipulators of the markets in specific and the world in general.

why traders lose most of the time

a very amusing fact always perplexed me till i found my own answer to it.

the dilemma is this : markets can either go up or down. a trader can only be long or short. this makes it 50% assured chance of winning. then how come traders not winning at least 50% of the time and how come 90% (if not more) of the traders losing 90% of the time (if not more)!

well, the following is my explanation to myself (to the extent i have been able to decipher it)

reason 1 : traders avoid seemingly "losing trades" which, in reality, are actually not "losing" setups. this accounts for 50% of the trading opportunities for the eyeballs and brains...out-rightly missed.

reason 2 : traders lop-up the seemingly "winning trades" which are actually "set-up" traps. this accounts for the remaining 50% of the trading chances. perfect 100% open heist.

reason 3 : and if at all, the traders escape the first 2 reasons, this one traps them comprehensively. traders chicken out of profitable trades too early and get frozen in the losing trades. and those who still escape, they get trapped while trying not to book profit too early and trying not to book loss too late.

these 3 perfectly explain why 97% of the traders lose and to the extent they do.

in these very reasons lie the strategy of the operators as also the solutions for the traders who want to buck the overwhelming odds of a very favourable set-up on the face of it!

most traders have a mental unwritten flexible soft approximate rough ad-hoc system.

better than having no system at all.

the only trouble is that it being mostly in the air that is where it goes amidst the psychological shocks inevitable in the market....besides remaining largely primitive because of poor chance of it being improved because of it not been in writing for scrutiny.

a loss remains mostly an experience to be forgotten and overcome instead of being a feedback for improvement and adjustment of the system.

casino royale - II

[10:30 AM, 2/14/2017]

lot of options premium to be eaten by operators. they needing range IMO                      

what better proof required than this being the 9th day within 8700-8800 nifty spot range.                      
it's a premium eating and computers controlled casino royale...

in casino, players play to win or lose, casino operators exist to erode by letting everyone come and play

they manage stocks to manage nifty. nifty in itself is nothing but a derived Mirage                      

and they have cleverly devised instruments like nifty futures and options to trade even that Mirage.... hats off                      

trading fundamentally strong stocks with signals from nifty is the only non premium losing game positional traders can play..,

near, yet far!!!

there are 4 phases of market:

1. near dead heartbeat volatility
= fails, suffocates and frustrates any and every method.

2. range bound (but alive)
= boring and ultimately makes either makes u impatient or doze off just before the take off time

3. trending
= those rare sunny days when u can play. alas, u blunder, courtesy hangover of above two phases or the next one.

4. giant trend
= unbelievable, without warning, ridiculous, one way sudden move which catches u unawares. u r too late, shaken and unsure when u finally enter. what i gain is peanuts in front of what u miss. when the tide is gone, u propel ur arms but there is no sea to swim by then!

a trader who can find a way to not only identify (to whatever extent possible) the above phases (or atleast devise a way to reasonably profit while incurring minimum unavoidable damages) can only hope to make some money consistently.

add to this the dilemma that of having a technical (or other) template to predict the turning points of the trend reasonably accurately, that u begin to realize the enormity of the seemingly sweet butch game called trading.

add to all this, the deliberate illogical games operators play

and the inherent uncertainties of the global events!!!

the earlier u accept the reality, the better......

quite a few of my hair have turned silver trying to crack the code and weave it into a practical compromise strategy......

how near am I !

yet how far!!!

if u see the 4 phases i mentioned above and multiply it with the uncertainty gaming factor, u realize that u r playing 5 in 1 games which are being randomly switched!!!

don't bother about the news

imo, technical traders should be purists.

they shouldn't bother about fundamentals or news.

any news or development that doesn't go with the trend/contour predicted by advance technical analyses is likely to be dampened and nullified thus giving chance to the technical and tactical trader another (artificial) opportunity to trade to profit.

an eye on a forthcoming news is the max a purist trechnical trader should keep. that's all.

predicting which way the event unfurls is not that important (it is anyway impossible to predict the outcome except with insider's information). what's actually important is having a tactical trade setup (with a plan to profit from whichever way the market moves after or during the event).

how many times have we seen market go big up and then big down after the completion of the event such as end of budget speech or fed/rbi rate cut or increase?

prices are sniffer dogs of fundamental masters.....they have the insider information of the approaching fundamentals.

any "disturbing" news or fundamental doesn't survive for long. operators can't stop news, but they can more than absorb them.....worse, they use them

events are known beforehand to the powers which are.

and the shadow of their intentions are clear on the charts/indicators/signs. any drama courtesy event/news (foreseen/unforeseen) is not much different from crocodile tears.

gulp it all with a pinch of salt.

and don't forget to say "thank you". good traders should be masters of mannerisms and etiquette, especially when in profit.

the real bluff...

i am, frankly and genuinely though, v uncomfortable with this spike (today and yesterday).

long long ago, i used to divide rises of three types.....climbs, spike, shift...depending upon the angle of rise and the magnitude.

while climbs were reasonably stable, spikes were fragile and shifts (vertical ones) were rock solid. i even wrote an article on it*.

current one seems like a shift. options data also bullish. but the down rally was just half over. i was and am perplexed. but i, fortunately, always kept room for surprises/adjustments in my system.

there was no real surprise worth its salt in the past many months since i am on this version of the system, as u are witness to, but this one is.....going by the sheer magnitude and the time it took.

this may well turn out to be a non-event bluff in line with what i was expecting till noon today (49% down rally was left) but if may well turn out to be one of those occasional "re-calibration" "real bluffs".......





*http://thebestbusinessintheworld.blogspot.in/2010/02/climb-spike-and-shift-day-trading.html

bitter truth

everything in the market is predeterminded and cooked in the short to medium time frame. any untoward unforeseen event is reacted to but soon dissolved and nullified if against the original route map of the operators

they never say "no"

DM : Even call writers feeling heat now in this rally....

Js : imo operators are 95% writers. they never feel the heat wherever the market goes. they write all strike prices unconditionally. they just charge (much) more premium for the strike prices where they are planning to take the market or expect it to go. they are great shopkeepers. they never say no to write any strike price, any kind of option when someone asks for or is willing to buy. options spread anaylses should be done with this in mind.

bro, what exactly do u want?

200 points up in 2 hours, approaching budget and still operators managing to instill sufficient fear in the minds of the traders regarding whether to enter or not.

...whether it is poised to fall now.

....amazing operator game.

....simply amazing.

...brazen animal instincts at play.

...sheep, hounds and the lions....self talk

the masses crave for longs during bear rallies.

....operators succumb to their demand a bit too late  and by the time they actually allow the longs, the masses start craving for shorts!!! 

....what a dilemma.

.....masses never get what they want.

...always remain cribbing.

...victims of fear and uncertainty.

....operators use this so well

every trader should ask himself during introspection times "bhai, tuu chahta kya hai?" (bro, what exactly do u want?"

no lollipops pl

one of my friends said : 

If there is a dip indeed then I will go and purchase for next series.

my opinion : 

purchasing for "the next series" is an inherently defensive, unsure, nervous and fearful approach.....try playing always for "here and now", on "as is where is" basis.....win it or lose it or avoid it....

but don't be fearful, tentative, adhoc, unsure, defensive...this way we inadvertently give our subconscious trading mind long easy smooth rope to hang itself....take positive step, let it fail thereafter if it will......

say no to all "lollipops" in this market

zen and the art of stock trading (a whatsapp chat) (oct 15)

 Js : Imo, we are in sell on rise bearish positional stage. around half rally over from time span pov, not magnitude...

Sanket Netherlands: JS Ji couldn't get it...

Js: on 2nd dec, i had shared my opinion that rally is over, yellow for down market. i expected the down rally to start one two days later. but, to my somewhat surprise, it started immediately and with a bang. my understanding is that whenever the rally reverses sharply like this and with the options spread as that on 2nd dec, it indicates the start of a range......

Js: presently we are, technically, in a down trend. but if we club it with the above mentioned opinion that range is likely to be maintained, i expect volatility. i couldn't take shorts then. i won't now. i expect a sharp move up in a few days. that can be loosely said...dead cat bounce also. but that won't be the start of up trend which seems a few days away....probably mid of next week.....hope i have not left u confused...if so, would like to clarify....

Sanket Netherlands: Crystal clear view

prakashji: absolutely clear

Js: over the years, i have realised that it is difficult and exhausting to try and catch both sides of the trade....both buying and selling side....especially in positional trading......and nothing wrong if u don't punish yourself for that....

Js: i love to take rest for some days when i miss the bus instead of running after it

: i don't fear when i am on the sidelines...and this helps in spotting and learning the games markets play

: recently i have brought some change in my trades.....

: not in terms of the method or system but the instruments...

: the change was basically brought in to counter the loss of premium (in options) during range bound days.

: now a days, i use the same method/system.....and when the system says "buy", instead of shopping for nifty options, i buy stocks in "cash n carry".....amount almost same as the exposure value of nifty options.......

: this way, i am no longer losing premium when market doesn't move for many range days which i fail to foresee (probably no one can)

: and how do i choose those stocks?

: well, primarily good a and b group stocks plus the ones which my broker hdfc securities keeps spamming me....

: when i get the "buy" signal, i open the charts of all these candidate stocks and shortlist the ones which have fallen the most and fallen the least during the down move. i distribute my entire "dollar brigade" 50-50 in both these camps.....

: eg. recently i chose idea and sbi.....on 19th...among other stocks....

: sbi because it had fallen the least from 13 oct to 18 nov and idea because it had fallen the most

: idea gave me around 7% and sbi 5%+.....more than the market

: i took all out on 2nd afternoon....expecting down trend in 1-2 days but it crashed within hours....

: i'm not complaining though

+91 xxxxx xx331: Based on this u say when up move comes - the stock which has fallen most should give decent returns and the stock which has not fallen much should reach higher highs. sir ji - IMO trick here is choosing the stocks

Js : yes, sandeep, one half the trick is finding right time to buy

: and the other half is picking the stocks

Xxxxx xx331: Please do share these sort of things - it is really interesting to analyse and fun too

Js: i'm not bothering about sbi NOW shishirji......because this round was over on 2nd dec....now, when the new buy signal comes, i will fish/shortlist/hunt for stocks for that ride afresh as per the criteria i shared above

Js: no permanent friendship or animosity with any stock....just pure logic/opportunism

: shorting i do only with nifty puts....unfortunately/incidentally i didn't get opportunity this time (on 2nd dec)

: no stop loss in stocks....

: whats the harm in holding a good stock even otherwise

xxxxx xx577: Means if u find nifty weak and feels downside than u will not trade stocks and.will do in puts

Js: yes

: up=stocks, down=puts

: idea was moving even when nifty wasn't.....

: and nifty exit signal emerged much earlier than those in the charts of these stocks....

Xxxxx xx577: U might face same problem what u face in calls   I mean eating premium😇

Js : bessides, going by the elliot wave logic, falls are 3 times faster and for 3 times lesser duration than rise. so buying puts is safer than buying calls on respective sides. because puts premium erosion is much slower, as it happens faster and u r in for lesser time

MM: Safe method if nifty will go up most stocks will go up 👍🏻

Xxxxx xx331: Pretty good strategy sir ji

MM: And good logic for nifty options

Js: from 19nov to 2 dec, it took 8 days to climb 200 points, but it took just 3-4 days to loose that all from 2 dec to 4-5dec

MM: True

Js: yes....but the beta has to be positive.....i.e. the stocks which move in nity's direction....

: eg i will not risk IT stocks, Oil and Gas Stocks, FMCG

Xxxxx xx577: Only bank stocks most of times. Like sbi axis hdfc

Js: yes, banks are safest...beta is high

: but u have to peep out of the banking window to locate stocks which yield max swing during up moves...

Xxxxx xx331: JS JI - u meant beta should be correlated with Nifty movement

Js: yes...... i still remember a statement by shankar sharma that while ADAG group stocks are not the best fundamentally, they make superb trading stocks because of their big moves

: experience tells us which stocks move in tandem with nifty more often.....any doubts, u can do backtesting for any particular stocks

: airline stocks are also good trading bets, though risky investments

: same about sugar stocks

: these are badmaash shareef stocks....from trading pov

: historically, i have made more money trading in stocks than trading in nifty

Js: however, nifty is easier to predict than stocks.....many reasons for that

: not a bad idea to use indicators/system/method to predict nifty and then use the nifty indication to trrade stocks

: don't want leverage tension

: i prefer buying sbi stock for a few years than putting the same money in the same bank for the same period in savings account

: that, in my opinion and understanding, is the essence of investing

: in trading, if u r not in hurry, u reach early....self talk

: in trading learning never stops....self talk

: what we call learning, is infact, continuous adaptation to newer/changing/emerging realities....self talk

: positional trading is so slow and boring that i have nothing to share for days at a stretch...frankly

deepak: IMO ...EUREKA of a chat....  these are bonus chats.....Thanks Jagmohanji.... ( Sandeep for anchoring it to perfection )

Js: buying opportunity comes 1-2 times every month (positionally), on an average, speaking from my experience....js

: in a way, i like it.....as it gives me a lot of time to live "the life"

: most of the times, i (am happy to) see situations/developments in the market passing by my positional tra(in)de...

: long ago i read the book "zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance".......

: it could easily have been "zen and the art of stock market trading"

: sometimes, i ponder that i may not retire richer from the stock market in terms of money but definitely a multimillionaire in terms of "life" i learnt/earned in the process

Xxxxx xx331: Truly agree

Js: if trading is changing u for good, u r trading right!!!

: even if u r losing some money

Xxxxx xx331: But in that process u become rich - hehehehe

Js: i will just stick to the method shared above irrespective of whether it is sbi or

: abi, bbi, cbi, dbi or.....sbi......as long as it is a group a or b "good" stock

: i am anyway going to forgive and forget any particular stock once one cycle/wave is over...

: u r , though , right in asking about sbi from probably medium to longer pov, for which i'm not the right guy to ask

imitate the operators this way

[11:45AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: thanks Ganesh for sharing that inspiring newsprint....👍 (regarding a japanese trader making multiple million dollars betting against the crashed markets of last week)
[11:46AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: though it was risky but probably done by a guy who knew what he was doing
[11:47AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: many may emulate him after reading this story and burn fingers without realizing the preparation and safety net behind his trade
[11:49AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: if this feat can be even approximately repeated by him often, he is a genuine genius.even if it was a ultra bold gamble of him and he decides to call it a day, still too great
[11:49AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: but certainly inspiring from few angles
[11:51AM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Js ji - I thought of asking you this question many times but somehow didn't.
After doing extensive research on this - I am of the opinion - does FII use charts or any other technical indicators?
I somehow feel they have predecided everything and play accordingly.
Others like us justify their games by linking it to charts or technicals.
Don't you agree?
[11:52AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: in addition to shubh labh, I want sure labh, surakshit labh, nirantar labh
[11:54AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: imo, operators don't use “charts"
[11:54AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: lions don't have time tables
[11:55AM, 29/08/2015] Chennai: How can all FII consolidatedly act together and profit - I feel even in that only those ones who have got money power are playing the game
[11:56AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: operators must be having cartels, and there must be only a few, smaller ones falling in place and towing line
[11:57AM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: So then I guess they may wantedly doesn't breach few levels so that to trap everyone after entering
[11:57AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: operators don't win or lose.they scavenge.they suck.they are leaches.they are in the middle of everything
[11:57AM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: OK
[11:57AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: yes true
[11:58AM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: So their idea is to not to lose the value of their investments but at least maintain it without any erosion and make meager profit by hedging if possible
[11:59AM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: operators of China don't fight with those of Europe or America.and vice versa.they dance in sync, whatever.they adjust and take advantage
[11:59AM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: So FII all over the world operate same way then and they see consolidatedly
[12:00PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: So nothing to lose for them and it's all the retail investors money at stake
[12:00PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: they needn't worry about wealth erosion.they are the deciders reaction to parameters, at time even parameters.they have got all the money at their disposal.
[12:01PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: amounts we can't even dream, let alone think
[12:02PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: yes
[12:02PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: So the main idea should be understanding their logic rather than any technicals
[12:02PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Agreed js ji - it's all played he them
[12:02PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: like mafia they are interconnected interdependent.having tacit understanding
[12:03PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Js ji other thing I noticed - they are playing the same way not just in index but also in all the stocks
[12:03PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: we can understand them as we can understand movement of planets even when they are astronomical in size
[12:04PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I am of the opinion now they know the results of the companies much before their announcement and data as proved it in few stocks
[12:04PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: yes, for them, stocks and indices are like minute and hour hands of the trading clock
[12:05PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I was no one 8-9 months before
[12:05PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: insiders always know results beforehand.obviously.outsiders always have access to insiders.insiders are humans
[12:06PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: After reading your blogs and joining this and reading your messages. I am happy to get into trading and get decent understanding and somehow fell that I am able to get their logic - big hatsoff to you
[12:07PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: keep learning.be a non sheep
[12:08PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Yesterday I was able to see in few stocks these people had first hand information on results previous day and change the price during the results day
[12:08PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Yeah every day is a learning process and I love that
[12:09PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: traders should gradually develop habit of accumulating distributing instead of just getting in out in single shots.habits of operators will work even at minuscule level
[12:09PM, 29/08/2015] Guru Mysore: Inherent stop loss is the best thing in options..
[12:09PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: 1000%
[12:10PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I am just having sleepless nights everyday just thinking what sort of analysis to be done
[12:10PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: amateurs should only trade in naked calls or puts
[12:10PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Please share your learnings on accumulation and distribution
[12:10PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: sleepless nights clarify the clutter best after a level
[12:11PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: still learning
[12:11PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Hmmm agreed js ji
[12:11PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: recently shifted my focus on this
[12:12PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: enter and exit in steps is the simplified version of accumulation and distribution
[12:13PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: when and whether operators could or couldn't accumulate or distribute are the biggest hints of the truth behind the market moves
[12:13PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Don't you think heding in steps won't be possible
[12:15PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: there is big big big money in trading.but comes only when you “crack the code"
[12:15PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Hedging is not the best option - ignore it seem stupid question
[12:15PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Yes sir ji
[12:16PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Js ji were u able to see any equation between stocks and index of Fii investments?
[12:16PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: and when that happens, it is not only rains but cloud burst.....of money
[12:16PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Hmmmm
[12:17PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I am witnessing that from past few days obviously in my scale as such
[12:18PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I felt they play the same way across all - whether nifty / bank nifty / stocks
[12:18PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Rather their logic is simple and it is uniform
[12:20PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I am just trying to get as many as inputs from you as possible - so I can further work on the inputs which you give
[12:21PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: stocks are levers issues operators control indices.rather, stocks (sectoral, macro economical) dynamics tell operators where to see indices heading.it won't be wrong to say that operators control sectors and not indices.the remaining world looks at indices only. for operators indices are only additional stocks
[12:22PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: operators are just accumulators distributors and commission agents (read premium eating facilitators)
[12:23PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Hmmmmm that's the logic for their operations
[12:23PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: imo
[12:23PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: built over all these years, seeing all that I did
[12:24PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Wow
[12:24PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: I repeat
[12:25PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: traders should gradually develop habit of accumulating distributing instead of just getting in out in single shots.
[12:25PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: for that you need to trade small and gradually build up
[12:25PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Hmm that's important js ji - will try to work towards that.
[12:26PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Sorry js ji other question - they usually build the boundary every month within which they work - am I right?
[12:26PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: even one sided (only buy) cash and carry practice of this with stocks is a great start.it Will gradually build the habit and method operators use
[12:26PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: Some circumstances they collapse and widen it bit more - so no one will have clue
[12:27PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: directions rather than boundaries I would say
[12:28PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: That's interesting js ji - direction is the key here
[12:28PM, 29/08/2015] Sandeep Chennai: I will back test it
[12:28PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: yes IMO
[12:28PM, 29/08/2015] jagmohanshan: any pro trend trade, even if momentary wrong will go right in the end or will not go terribly wrong atleast

bulls, bears, dogs and pigs

[9:55AM, 10/07/2015] Guru Mysore: @JS how to find who is bull trader or bear trader?.. 😳..

[9:57AM, 10/07/2015] ashok: Depends who speaks when ...

===============

what an answer@ashokji.....loaded and right

there are 5 kinds of traders....

1.sworn bulls
= either investors, agents of bears, only-sunny days creatures, or fools

e.g. sameer arora.....(disclosure...I'm his a.c.....bigger than a fan)

2.sworn bears
= either whistle blowers, agents of bulls, only-raining day creatures, or pessimist fools

e.g. shankar sharma.....what confidence and clarity man!

3. temporary bulls....
= who have seen a red flag uphill somewhere

professional sworn bears are facilitators of professional accumulaters

professional sworn bulls are facilitators of sellers in distress

=============

Guru Mysore: wow, @JS.. looks like you have done some psychology course .. :)

=============

: stock rich bulls are known to wear bear masks to crash prices to accumulate more at lower prices

: vice versa for cash rich, give-a-damn-to-stocks financers

: bulls as well as bears are mission masks for professionals and state of mind for amateurs like us

4. positional bears
= like the one I'm this week.lazy heavy trading animal who has seen the crack and loves the crackle of the crumble

5.scared street dogs and pigs
= for the trucks and slaughter houses

the safest gambling in the world

js 

: if you have 500 points worth of dollars and you take 5 shots of options worth 100 each (ofcourse using some head), Atleast one of them is going to click and make 500 for you. and imagine 2 clicking.....3,4,5!!! that's the magical safety of naked options trading.....self talk

jeneel

: 3 out of 5make a good.money

js

: the problem is we don't bet one by one....like James Bond we bet all in one go and get screwed.....

jeneel

: I agree.  I m one of.them.  sab kuch subah ka.breakfast mai kha lena hai.    Lunch dinner ki toh baat hi nai karni ya sochna

js

: trading is the safest gambling in the world.....

ashok

: Best and Safest business

js

: when I was trading,I was losing.....when I started gambling,I started winning.....
: besides, I gamble, not bet
: trading is probabilistic, not deterministic
: if you have 500 points worth of dollars and you take 5 shots of options worth 100 each (ofcourse using some head), Atleast one of them is going to click and make 500 for you. and imagine 2 clicking.....3,4,5!!! that's the magical safety of naked options trading.....self talk
: lemme explain this....
: suppose i have 12500/- rs with me.......
: and i am expecting market to go down.....and i want to play
: i will buy (say) one lot of 8300pe worth 100 points (example). that will cost me 100x25=2500/- bucks
: i can bet 5 times such a bet worth 2500/- in the 12500/- i have
: 12500 dovided by 25 (nifty lot size) = 500 points......2500/- x 5 = 100points x 5 chances
: if my 8300pe trade goes really right, it has potential to zoom to 500 in around 550-600 point zoom/rally
: if it goes wrong, the next 100 point bet can zoom..... or the next one.....or the next one....
: even if one of the 2500/- bet clicks, my 12500/- are safe......
: imagine more than 1 bet going right!!!
: imagine buying multiple lots....
: hope i have explained right...