Weekend group discussion

Murli Chainani: Dear JS, You trade in nifty only or in stocks also?

Js: Only nifty Murliji

Js: Some reasons for this....

: 1.stocks don't obey technicals as much as indices do.....not difficult to understand why...because indices are average of the stocks and hence vibrate less

: 2.high liquidity

: 3.you don't have to study fundamentals of so many stocks....just macro

: 4. Premium is not bloated like that of stocks

: 5.stocks can crash like sky fall (Satyam etc), much more than index

: my technicals fail on stocks.....accuracy drops dramatically....

: earlier i used to blame my skills....but when same method worked beautifully in nifty, i got suspicious and checked deep.....only to discover that stocks are like single cylinder enfield bullet engine that vibrates a lot while nifty is an 8 cylinder coupe engine with all vibrations smoothened....

Rajan: Beautifully explained

Js: nifty can't sleep for more than a few hours....stocks can remain sleeping for years

JP: Just joined....interesting discussiona

Js: that is, perhaps, the reason why they say trade the stock which has started moving....otherwise leave it till then

: good stocks are seeds which should be acquired and planted in one's backyard before they start shooting into trees.....or, in other words, before they start growing even bigger....much bigger

JP: Great stuff..

Js: so, stocks are great for investing.....

: but for trading, only those stocks should be touched which have said good morning....

JP: Veer ji. I wish to be your student...

Murli Chainani: Nurturing explanation

Js: everyone is a teacher of something....everyone is a student of something😀

JP: Amazing..

Js: for day trading in stocks, algo trading is the only sensible profitable repeatable way....

JP: But every one can't access algo..

Js: true....

JP: For non tech savvy ...what is the way out..

Js: if u r determined enough, u can still do it....but won't be a match for equally determined rajans

: for non-tech savvy traders like me, sticking to one day trading tactic and sticking to one or two stocks or just nifty or bank nifty is enough

JP: Yes... Its easier that way

Js: one of the unbeatable advantage of algo trading is that it can throw up a just-awakened stock out of a lot of hundreds and thousands of stocks.....

: since manually u can't match that, it is better to stick to ur favourite naughty stocks

: which almost never sleep...

: it is like asking someone to reproduce a thousand replicas of a handcrafted gun......

JP: 👌

Js: a handcrafted trade will be a masterpiece even before the algo assembly line

: and a millionaire like u jp can always hire a techie to inject ur trading secrets into an empty algo

: i, for that reason, am a craftsman....only nifty, only one trade at a time....unlike the henry "rajan" ford assembly line

: but one day, i'm afraid, we artists will be extinct making way for the rajan robots....who will rule the world.....

: we will be cleaning them after every trading session and earning our livelihoods....

: one day, trading will change beyond imagination......

: we will miss the trading we don now....

Loganathanmoorthy: Very appreciable

Js: like those pit traders of the last century who have tears in their eyes recalling their pasts

Loganathanmoorthy: Trading never dies

Js: enjoy ur every trade....enjoy your every day in the terminal pit....enjoy your every win....celebrate ur every loss....

Loganathanmoorthy: May i know how to get algo p

Js: there are many skeletons available in the market.....buy one and program it with ur method....or get someone do it......

: if u google, u will come across them....i forgot the one rajanji is using....

Loganathanmoorthy: Are you using rajanji algo

Js: i am old fashioned illiterate craftsman trader using free google charts and half empty head...i don't have access to any algo.....it is like urdu to me...rajanji ke paas jaata hoon to chai biscuit ke baad vaapis bhej dete hain...

Arun Singla: 😄😄😄😄😄😄

Js: but someday i will hire a about-to-be-dead software programmer to code my method just before dying without making copies of that program

Arun Singla: 😄😄😄

Loganathanmoorthy: Good, very nice

Js: i still belong to the school of thought that believes that human mind can beat computers in mischief and counter mischieves be it trading or anything.....

Arun Singla: Tajmahal banwa ke haath katwa diye shehan shaah ne...aap bhi aisa hi sochte ho kya 😄😄

Js: yes....fortunately...

: not because i am that greedy or selfish....but because

: the day i openly reveal my method (as if that is a khajaanaa...anyhow) if it is of any worth it will become ineffective as the operators will change the setup...

: operators are like smart bacterium which quickly adapt to the over used antibiotic and change into a newer strain

: a close whatsapp group is harmless

: incubator of ideas...

: my friends as my  guinea pigs😜

Js: just joking.....i know my buddies have a terrific sense of humour

Arun Singla: I m not agree with ur algos suggestion....

Reason:
If trading can be done so easily by modifying algos, all technical experts or programmers from IIT would be millionaire..

It requires patience, discipline, money management and skills to make money..

Algos dont have such qualities, only it can calculate on pre fitted assumptioms we fixed their...🙇

Js: successful trading requires a child's mind....

: a child is a great gamer....

: successful trading is nothing but great gaming.....

: i always say that as long as we are trading we will keep getting beaten....

: don't trade it....play it...like a game....

Rupinder S Raina: Indeed

Js: we are playing on technical or fundamental level and getting beaten up on tactical level....

: a child can beat us all hand down...

: u and me stand no chance....

: the only thing is that that child doesn't know the jargon and is still a child....but given a chance children and make us run for covers in trading.....

: till of course, they continue playing the trades and don't start trading....

: this is the reason why engineers and physicians and ph.d.'s and ias and iit'ians and scientists etc are all losing miserably till operators make them forget who they are....

: i think a chess or kho-kho player or any sportsman can be a great trader...

: any thief or scamster can be a great trader...

: we have had many in history....i don't want to name them

Loganathanmoorthy: Great......

Js: do u think that it is a coincidence that all the top business dons are actually not ph.d. or iit'ians or doctors!!!

: operators play.....u can survive and thrive only by playing....simple

Arun Singla: No they hire for themselves people around all the corners.

Js: they decide the program....they get techie goondas to code the algo and run it

Arun Singla: 😄😄..not techie goondas...the top 10 programmers around the world at their mouth fill salaries..

Js: i recently read "freakonomics" by steven d.levitt wherein he has elaborated how the top dons exploit the poor down-the-ladder poorly paid bonded-labour-goondas

: not that techie techie.....only software is not tech...how to run a mafia operation is also tech

: i was talking of those techies....

: though u qualify for both buddie....

: i know u have great sense of humour too...

The butcher house

: Stock market is a butcher house in the garb of casino under the license of trading.....self talk 

: For profitable trades, traders don't have to or need to do anything.....Operators do what all is to be done....traders just have to choose the direction, trust the method and hold tight....self talk

: operators are nice people.....they never hurt anybody's sentiments.......they never make any budding trader feel outrightly that trading may not be his or her cup of tea......they bleed them like leeches...till they understand.....self talk

: stock trading is not a nice thing from both sides......only from the winner's side....and winners are generally by rotation......

: there are two types of traders.....amateurs and professionals. the day all amateurs are gone, there will still be two types of traders....amateur professionals and professional professionals.......till u approach trading with professional approach, u stand little chance.....self talk

: there may be a simple way of trading but there is no easy way....avoiding the basics of trading is only to prolong the already bleak chances of success.......because any budding trader has only limited mental strength and peace of mind to spend, let alone money to lose......

: a software is the surest way to commit trading suicide if the algorithm is wrong.....and to get the right algo u have to know the game itself......off-the-shelf algorithms are poison

: a trading software is not an alternative to learning trading.....it is complementary to trading.....

: a good software can multiply ur trading success, a bad one can divide it....

: i have seen most of the traders trade just because they don't have access to any other form of "kick"

: trading is a wonderful entertainment provided u just quit when the ticket money is vasool......don't sell yourself

: bring yourself back.....

: trading is the most difficult and least paying business in the world if you don't know how to.....and the most easy and highest paying business in the world if do learn..... 3:52PM, 28/02/2015] Jagmohan Singh: For profitable trades, traders don't have to or need to do anything.....Operators do what all is to be done....traders just have to choose the direction, trust the method and hold tight....self talk

: operators are nice people.....they never hurt anybody's sentiments.......they never make any budding trader feel outrightly that trading may not be his or her cup of tea......they bleed them like leeches...till they understand.....self talk

: stock trading is not a nice thing from both sides......only from the winner's side....and winners are generally by rotation......

: there are two types of traders.....amateurs and professionals. the day all amateurs are gone, there will still be two types of traders....amateur professionals and professional professionals.......till u approach trading with professional approach, u stand little chance.....self talk

: there may be a simple way of trading but there is no easy way....avoiding the basics of trading is only to prolong the already bleak chances of success.......because any budding trader has only limited mental strength and peace of mind to spend, let alone money to lose......

: a software is the surest way to commit trading suicide if the algorithm is wrong.....and to get the right algo u have to know the game itself......off-the-shelf algorithms are poison

: a trading software is not an alternative to learning trading.....it is complementary to trading.....

: a good software can multiply ur trading success, a bad one can divide it....

: i have seen most of the traders trade just because they don't have access to any other form of "kick"

: trading is a wonderful entertainment provided u just quit when the ticket money is vasool......don't sell yourself

: bring yourself back.....

: trading is the most difficult and least paying business in the world if you don't know how to.....and the most easy and highest paying business in the world if do learn.....

Bluff called Levels

Rajanji, don't support and resistance levels work because everyone is looking at them because everyone are taught that....?

These are not based on fundamentals or psychology.....I think.....they work because these are wide spread beliefs.....People believe in the channel theory, horizontal levels....which other than mass hysteria reasons is totally make believe working crap

There is a multi billion dollar consultancy, training, publishing, media, brokerage industry based on all this....

Otherwise, reason behind any level of any stock in the past cannot be the same months and years later.....what to talk of macro economy of the country and worldwide.....

It still works because sufficient people believe in this theory.....

Operators take advantage of it.....mercilessly, as per their convenience and necessity....

Newer and amateur traders are taught technicals to become unsuspecting victims.....

They play at technical level and get beaten on the tactical level...

That is why I believe that if someone trades like one plays video game he or she will make more money then with technicals....

A kid who doesn't know technicals can beat his technical father or mother hands down in trading.....in my opinion

Markets and market situations are always new.....and we play them with outdated reference points...

Reason why even the most sophisticated trading software can't guarantee profits without human intervention of high quality...

self talks

.....whether the market is at 8000 or 6000 or 4000.....only thing imp for  trader is that it should keep vibrating, keep moving.....profit comes from movement unless u r premium eater nd prefer dead movement


....if u can potentially hold a long forever, u never have to book a loss.ur every trade will be profitable. and imagine....u always have more to put in at every dip!!!....this is what Deep Pockets do....

...a sufficiently advanced automode algorithm attached to ur bank account will be like an automatic tap of money....

....swing positional trading is very boring if ur mind runs fast.....but it is most exciting if ur mind's least count is quite large and u tune it down accordingly...

are you trading against a robo?

whether you know it or not
whether you see or feel or experience or spot it or not
you are!
you are mostly trading against a robo!
an algorithm
a super-software!!!


welcome to algorithmic trading!


also known as algo trading or blackbox trading or robo trading or automated trading.


what is this?


simple......a super software, a highly intelligent superfast calculative algorithm does trading for you
while you sip coffee, play golf or take a nap or just watch the screen.


almost totally automatic trading.


all trading decisions as to what to trade, when, how much, at what rate........everything is decided by the computer, the algorithm, the software.....without any human intervention!!!


just like "deep blue" or "deep thought" super computers played chess against Garry Kasparov.


the only difference.....chances are that you are not Garry!!!


rather, in this case, the Garrys have teamed up with Deep Blues + Deep Thoughts to play against...........


.......well you guessed it right......poor you!!!


major fii's, pension, mutual and hedge funds and others don't trade......they algo trade!!!


they sneak in or out big elephant or dinosaur orders in slices with computer precision and stealth.


this they do to manage and manipulate the market and leave almost no footprint by making sure big entries and withdrawals are almost unnoticed.


algo trading makes sure that you see minimu spikes and dips in volumes while mammoth trading takes place.


these algorithms are so powerful that they are programmed to calculate a hundred things and manage "the game" in such a way that they always win!


these algorithms are designed to initiate lightening fast action on dumping on buying shares on the basis of news received electronically.


e.g. before even before human bank management comes to know of an aberration in the liquidity, these algorithms see it coming (courtesy their computational power backed by the intelligent programs) and trigger the action.....even before others come to know of it and understand it!


this is known as 'high frequency trading' (HFT) and has dramatically changed the world of trading from inside!


couple this the astronaumical advantage with money power these giants have!


according to a top consultancy firm, 73% of all US equity trading volume is algo trading!!!


in some other markets, the % trade volume taken care of by algo trading is even higher!


some of the recent crashes and abnormal moves are alleged to be caused by algo trading......rare chances when the secret gets spilled out!


and we haven't yet talked about algo bugs - intended or accidental!!!


welcome to the world of algo trading! 


the robo is always waiting for you. he can't see you.....but he can definitely feel you


when you get squeezed gently by him!!!

check this out before trading nifty and bank nifty

here is a website i thought i must share with you all.

traders can use it to crosscheck before they take trades in nifty or bank nifty.

also, if you were not to use this as a cross reference but to actually use it exclusively to trade then just one word of caution:-

don't follow it in bits and pieces.

either follow it like a machine 

or don't.

caution : whipsaws are a lot (as mentioned by rajandran - profit ratio is 42%.)

but the size of profits take care of everything.

http://www.marketcalls.in/nifty-and-bank-nifty-futures 

hope this site and the concept behind this gives you a clue to your "holy grail"

- as holy as it can be!

(busy these days in devising some tactical trading win-win method based on option spreads. inspired by some friends to keep sharing which i will. best wishes)

trading with three laws of robotics

i was reading 

Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics"

it has occured to me that if a trading system is like a robot

it must obey these 3 laws meant for robotics.

here are the adaptations of the three laws of robotics

to the trading system

law one of robotics : a robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

adaptation of the law to trading system : a trading system may not cause substantial loss to a trader or, through inaction, allow a trader to come to loss.

law two of robotics : a robot must obey any orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the first law.

adaptation of the law to trading system : a trading system must NOT obey any orders given to it by the trader in the heat of the trading - it should trade strictly as per its defined rules, except where such disobedience would conflict with the first law.

law three of robotics : a robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the first or second law.

adaptation of the law to trading system : a trading system must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the first or second law.

software vs operators!

10 top software programmers of the world

joined hands

to develop

a super

trading software

which could magically

predict

the next move of the price!

--

they hired

the best testing agency in the world

to test the software!

it passed every test!!

--

they deployed it in the market

and started minting money.

--

one day

their servant leaked

the next bullish move

of a stock

to a big operator

for $500!

--

the operator

dumped 1 lac shares of the company

in less than 10 minutes!

--

the software

rendered its 20000 clients

bankrupt!!!

--

the software company collapsed

--

the operator

bought it!!!

From the sea to the swimming pools

Imagine a trader with a software which

is connected to live feed from NSE!

is designed to filter thousands of stocks on real time basis thru dozens of technical indicators!

throws up on the screen stock after stock which is either a buy or sell on the basis of multiple pre-set criterea!!

tells you when to square-off!!!

Thousands of traders are already using such software.....

Further, imagine a software hundreds of times more powerful!

Now, imagine a trader trading without any software!

There are lacs of them!

Further, imagine a trader trading without even graphs!

There are millions of them!

Finally, imagine a trader without even the basic knowledge of trading!

There are crores of them!!!

Any surprise money is constantly flowing from the sea to the swimming pools!

The best trading software in the world

I want to share a great trading software I have come across.

But, first, why have a trading software?

- it automatically tells u what to buy

- when to buy or short

- when to square off

- it helps u to trade without emotions

- it helps u in having patience till the entry or exit signal appears

- it helps u identify and ignore false signals

- it reduces ur brain work.

- it saves expenses of subscribing to tips

- no more dependency on others for tips

The software I am sharing with you has all these advantages besides the following bonus benefits:-

1) Being the best trading software in the world, it guarantees that there is no forecasting inaccuracy and vulnerability in case of sudden news (as is the case with other trading software).

A normal trading software cannot predict sudden fluctuations caused by sudden news.

Lots of people tend to lose money as the prices suddenly try to get away from their expectations. Not any more with this software.

2) Generally, the forecasting system inaccuracy is due to the obsolete information preserved in the software.

In order to overcome this, normal trading software need to be upgraded frequently. But not this software I am talking about.

3) Unlike other software, it doesn't depend on the past data but also future possibilities!

4) Unlike other software it keeps self improving with more and more trades carried thru it!

5) Unlike other software available in the market, it doesn't give you rediculous trade calls which are easily befooled by the manipulation of human traders.

What's really amazing about this software is that you are given the full and absolute rights of ownership for life time. you own the copyright.

If you don't know English, you need not worry, this software is available in all languages of the world. You may opt for your mother tongue also.

Besides, it comes with a free trial.

If you successfully go thru the trial offer, it comes free!!

However, It doesn't come in CD. It has no manual.

Also, when you order for this software, it is delivered right into your....
brain!!!

The name of this best software of the world is : "IMeMyself"

Developed by : "You, Inc!"

The user name is : selfconfidence

Password : practice3